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killing live shrimp
Posted by sabi (1130 days ago)
What's the best way to kill live shrimp or other sea-things without hurting them? lol...
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by megan (1130 days ago)
close your eyes
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by sabi (1130 days ago)
Just do it the regular way...
Love it the local good way.
(waterslang' has said)
Ouch. Me Amerloq native said.
Don't shoot at the pianist, please. Am not Amerloq
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by sabi (1130 days ago)
Disregard and have fun...
H20 slang.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by sabi (1130 days ago)
Am serious - i heat the grill, and dropped live shrimp on it, they start jumping around and out of the grill - n Water told me not nice to do that! Hence, Q here to All...
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Gandalf (1130 days ago)
I read somewhere that you should stick them in the freezer for half an hour or so before cooking. This is allegedly a relatively less painful way for them to kak it.
Freezing to death vs being burned alive over hot coals. Hmmn.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by waterslang' (1129 days ago)
I prefer to boil them for half a minute. Also painful I guess, but a quick execution.
And yes, don't like to go hunting all around the kitchen to catch those that jump out of the grill.
:-)
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Gumtree (1129 days ago)
Animal rights groups have just said that the kindest way to kill cane toads is in the freezer - can't see why it wouldn't also apply to shrimps, since they are a less evolved animal. I wish I could remember the stuff about their nervous systems - I am not even sure if they have pain receptors since their surface is a shell. I think it is more our problem than theirs how they die, since die they must!
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by waterslang' (1129 days ago)
Agree, die they must but again: hate to have to chase them around the kitchen.
OK, next time will try the freezer.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by sabi (1129 days ago)
freezing seafood changes the taste no - and what is the point of buying fresh then vs frozen?
Boiling also would semi-cook them and the wet shells on a grill wouldn't have the same flavor.
Also, there's no time if I come right back from the market to cook.
Main objection to the freezing is taste as frozen shrimp loses much of the flavour.
Ok, if they not in pain, then I put a wok cover to keep em from flying off the grill.
How do the teppanyaki guys do it, as they use fresh seafood?
And btw, how do I turn off the email notifiers?
(lol - poor bobsal - imagining now his mailbox popping like those jumping shrimps!)
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by sabi (1129 days ago)
Mac?
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by old mac (1129 days ago)
uhm, like wirth lobsters stick a pin through their head before cooking.
preferably i would just cook em alive./.....though on very hot fire....so they pop right away.
in case you have to .....just cut th heads off so theyr dead right away and grill heads and tails side by side.
BTW those freezer idea......try put yourself in a frezer for 2 hours then u know how painfull that is and how long it takes b4 u die
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by sabi (1129 days ago)
mac - thanks.
Pin through one lobster is ok, but for a bunch of shrimp is a bit much. Cutting off heads maybe but would spoil the looks heh?
gumtree - be kind but eat em - dead or alive! I guess animal rights groups have a point in all this.
Gotta find out more about the pain receptors - it is not the killing but the torture we inflict that is heinous. In any case, why do we assume that pain is regarded (?) in the same way as us?
Like a dead frog that twitches, is it only a muscular pysio-chemical reaction with no brain/consciousness (sentient beings they are not)?
Pigs are 4th in the intelligence ladder above horses and dogs - and we do kill a lot of pigs for their bacon.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Gumtree (1129 days ago)
Mac - last time I looked I was a human being, not a lobster, cane toad or shrimp!!!! They are "cold-blooded", so when the temperature goes down slowly, they just go into a sleep, like hibernation.
Sabi - you don't have to freeze them - just lower the temperature enough to kill them - I am guessing it would take less than half an hour, probably as little as 5 or 10 minutes. The flavour would be barely affected.
Email notifiers? You mean when you post a thread? There is a button after the submit one I think that asks yes or no for notification. The default is yes, so you have to remember to click the no.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by sabi (1129 days ago)
that was what water told me too - about taste and length of time in freezer. Good point re the body temp. as it numbs them...
Here a really hilarious tale on making Homard a l’Americaine. Very funny comments too on the article.
http://blogs.salon.com/0001399/2002/12/17.html
Notifiers: I obviously forgot as in a hurry, on starting thread but is it too late now?
In my control panel settings, I can change the default, but actually what I want is to be able to change the settings for a particular thread after a while once I have my questions answered.
Ed - if you are here?
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by old mac (1129 days ago)
sabi, by the way Homard a L'americaine is a misconception, it is supposed to be called Homard a L'armoricaine
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by sabi (1129 days ago)
dunno, mac, cut n paste - but didja read the link?
good laughs...
but does armoricaine mean something different?
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by old mac (1129 days ago)
uhm i got something about it in my office let me se if i can scan it tomorrow
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by sabi (1129 days ago)
ok, Google, being Americaine, asked me if I meant "l'americaine" but nevertheless gave a list of "l'amoricaine" - for those interested:
Question:
I have a question for you ..... Who was the French Chef that while in Chicago came up with the famous dish "Hommard a L'amoricaine?" I'm in culinary school and I'm desperately trying to find this answer. If you would please help, I would be most grateful. - Elyse Lussier (10/98)
Answer:
His name was Pierre Fraisse. He invented the dish in Paris after he had been working in America for some time and was thought to be a bit "Americanized." (Much has been written about the name, armoicaine or americaine). However, it is also said this dish had actually been on the menu of the restaurant before Fraisse began to work there and was then known as Homard Bonnefoy, thought to have originated in Languedoc in Southern France.
thanks - mac!
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by old mac (1129 days ago)
uhm, as far as i remember well from school....(25 years back) was that it originated from Bretagne...anyway will check it up for you tomorrow in my office
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Gumtree (1129 days ago)
That article is brilliant - laugh? I thought I would die (cold enough to at the moment)!
Still trying to remember invertebrate biology - there are so many groups of them I keep thinking I remember something and then realise it was about segmented worms, not crustaceans.
But - I am pretty sure that the "brain" of the lobster etc is merely a place where the nerve cells conglomerate. It is responsible for coordinating all basic functions like movement, response to light etc. It hasn't any "higher order" stuff like decoding sensory information at anything other than a reflex level and even that is pretty basic.
The movements of frogs, lobsters etc after decapitation is because a lot of the reflex movements are deal with in the spine and never go to the "brain" at all. Although frogs are way higher up on the evolutionary scale than lobsters and probably do have some higher order decoding happening in their little brains.
I do know that the Animal Ethics Committees of unis and schools in Australia permit unlimited use of invertebrates, but very very limited use of vertebrates, just because of this ability to feel and decode pain.
Mammals, even the most primitive ones, are able to "imagine" pain or at least sense the possibility of harm. So it is pretty nasty when they have to wait around in a slaughter yard when their colleagues and friends are being killed one by one. There is some evidence that birds and fish can sense harm and they certainly do show evidence of feeling pain.
Anyone for vegetarian food recipes????
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Gumtree (1129 days ago)
Ooops - lobsters don't have spines so their reflex actions are dealt with in the immediate region, not centrally.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by sabi (1129 days ago)
Our dinner? Great - is it gonna be chicons, ham n cheez sauce or.....have u found something better at Citysuper's?
cul8r!
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by waterslang' (1129 days ago)
Your favourite "Chicons au Gratin", Sabi.
Already ready to get under the grill, but will wait a bit longer.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by sabi (1129 days ago)
WS: Great - can't wait then!
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by blue lotus (1128 days ago)
Why don't we all consider being Vegetarian????
I haven't touch any meat for years,just feel great!!
(I am based in Tokyo)
Posted by old mac (1128 days ago)
uhm blue lotus.....why dont you go breathe helium as well?
why we need to become vegetarian? wer discussing prawns and losbeter here
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by old mac (1128 days ago)
homard A L'armoricaine
as written by Auguste Escoffier in one of his books, was created in Armorique or Armorica (the old name for Bretagne) it is also undisputedly that an American could have never created such a fine dish ( in that time)
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by waterslang' (1128 days ago)
Heya Mac.
You know what is the funny thing?
I have a translation of Escoffier's book "Ma Cuisine" here. The translator used also Homard a l'Americaine.
I just checked... so far for me for not buying the original French one.
BTW... Ma Cuisine was written for so-called amateur cooks while his standard work "Le Guide Culinaire" was for profi cooks.
Anyway, check the recipe I posted above. The one from that Brussels' restaurant.
Any comments, Monsieur, as I also think that Curnonsky was a great cook.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by old mac (1128 days ago)
where did u post a recipe above>? i cant find it.........
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by waterslang' (1128 days ago)
the link about Curnonsky....
bit jet-lagged? Lol.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by old mac (1128 days ago)
oh yes sorry.......didnnt shag for 2 months.....honey away you know.....is like BSE ...eats my brains
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by sabi (1128 days ago)
Is seafood "vegetarian."
What's so bad about red/white meat?
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by old mac (1128 days ago)
seafood is NOT vegetarian
BTW i jut find people who are vegetarian because they cant see animals get killed so hypocrite (help...spelling)
i mean although plants dont express pain...maybe even dont have feelings at all....its still life and you do kill it
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by sabi (1128 days ago)
agree, mac - the Jains (India) revered life so much they carried a broom to sweep as they walked to avoid killing life - so what did they eat?Plankton? but that also is life, plant life.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Gumtree (1127 days ago)
Mac, mac, mac... you gotta get over this vegetarian thing. There is a huge difference between killing a live animal that suffers when you kill it (or could suffer) and picking a tomato that has no nervous system. But really, after time it just becomes a taste preference.
Like I can't handle high fat, high salt, high sugar food anymore after nearly 10 years of deliberately reducing these in my diet. If I have a chinese banquet, I spend the next couple of days drinking litres of water and suffering from pains in my liver and kidneys due to the fat and salt content - not pleasant.
Did you know your body changes to adjust to your diet? And your tongue's taste buds actually change when you change your diet? Eg: if you are on a high salt diet you don't have many salt taste buds - when you change to a low salt diet, more of your taste buds learn to detect salt. So if you are hit again with a high salt diet, your tongue gets overloaded with the taste and you just want to throw up!
That is why people order food with low salt/low fat/low sugar whatever. They are not denying themselves an occasional treat - they just simply don't like the taste of this type of food and they know they are going to suffer ill effects from it. You don't want your customers groaning over a toilet bowl after one of your meals do you?
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by old mac (1127 days ago)
lmao.....my customerts seem to love my food.....hence theyr coming back and the majority do want their food seasoned! and ....why would you want to eat that super lean but tough and tasteless piece of steak in a restaurant where you pay many $$$ for it? instead eat that one at home and go for the good and nice marbled sirloin full of flavor and taste, and the fat :)
i do agree with you its a persons choice and people are free to do so.....im not against vegetarians.....just i cant accept the idea behind it....its silly
low salt/low sugar/low fat diets and taste buds i agree with you they will adjkust,....hence i can never become one of those as my customers will complain that theres way to lill salt/fat/sugar in the food and it doesnt taste for anything.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Gumtree (1127 days ago)
Yeah - I often wonder how a chef deals with their own food dislikes? Btw thanks so much for the recommendation for the seafood/meat delivery. Just wonderful to have fresh fish and non-frozen meat. AND non-marbled steak, *grins*. Aussie steak is not usually fatty because it is "free-range" and I have never had any trouble getting a tender cut of low fat steak in Australia - just had trouble paying for it!!!!
One day I will come and taste your cuisine eh?
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by waterslang' (1127 days ago)
Unless you're a member: No way, Gum... like he told us also.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by old mac (1127 days ago)
Gumtree...aussie steak is not usually fatty....because its free range.
lol...darling stop pulling things from your neck. free range has nothing to do with fatty or not.
anyway i understand what you want and mean. and yes the guys are good.
BTW no need to come eat here.....just buy some nice stuff, be creative.....est voila....nice dinner is ready.
BTW i wouldnt really wanna cook for you.....you cant taste my beauty springbok, french lobsters.....etc etc....lol (teasing ya)
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Gumtree (1127 days ago)
How do you know I am not a member??????
The free range thing is that Aust cattle range over thousands of acres rather than being in feedlots like they are in the US etc. And their diet normally is not supplemented: therefore leaner muscle, less fat.
Lobsters mmmmmmm. I wonder if they can deliver me some Western Australian crayfish????
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by waterslang' (1127 days ago)
Lobster is overrated anyway. What you think Mac.
Gum, if you were a member you already would have eaten there, not?
Elementary, my dear. Anyway, we all are allowed to joke.
Sorry Ed, unless you object, of course. My bad.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Gumtree (1127 days ago)
Lobster should be enjoyed very occasionally, IMHO. No, I haven't eaten there and I am not a member, but a close colleague of my partner is - maybe I can charm an entry??? Can't wait to test Mac's skill! And drive him crazy asking for a low-salt, low-fat dish, hold the sauce and make it vegetarian please, *very evil grin*.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by old mac (1127 days ago)
diet not supplemented? lmao.....corn fed....well whatever....anyway in general Aust beef of the better farms is quite good now yes.
i dont have crayfish now, but do have yabbies ;)
Lobsters to me are not over rated.....just over priced...
and gum....you can ask me to hold anything you like but please note that ....my sauces and soups take hours to prepare, so if you ask for a lobster bisque without the oil, without the salt and the sugar.........youll be in for a long wait:) everything s possible off course...but how patient are ya?
hehe
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by waterslang' (1127 days ago)
I'll have to stop reading the food board for a while. Just had lunch 2.5 hours ago and starting to feel hungry again.
As we are having a special dinner arrangment tonite I'm not going to allow myself having more food in between but reading here makes it tempting...
Let's check how good or bad I'm now in not giving in to foodie temptations.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Gumtree (1127 days ago)
OK - I'll give you 24 hours notice...
On seafood again - I want to do a seafood soup/stew - it is sort of a combination between a marinara dish and a spanish one. I can get mussels, fish, prawns but usually use calamari. Are the local squid and octopus OK as substitutes - only reason I ask is they seem to be bigger than I am used to and I am worried that I will overcook or undercook them and they will be too tough.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by old mac (1127 days ago)
hey Water how about this?
Smoked Goose liver shavings on Toasted Brioche
Mesclun Leaves and Raspberry Vinaigrette
or
Braised Berkshire Pork Belly with Star Anise and Cider Glaze on an Apple and Potato Mash with Vegetable Pearls
or.....
Confit of Barbarie Duck Leg
On a Bed of Wilted Arrugula Seasoned with a Nutty Vinaigrette
Caramelized Shallots and Purple Potato
hehehe gotcha mate! go plunder da fridge now! ill be back after lunch!
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by old mac (1127 days ago)
why not use baby squids? they r great and very cheap also in HK
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by waterslang' (1127 days ago)
Old Mac,
You, Gij... kl**tzak!
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by old mac (1127 days ago)
hes being consistenmt and tough.....hes now 2 hours not on here......hahaaaaaaa
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by sabi (1126 days ago)
big dinner for WS special day last nite:
- we had to stop them serving the last main dish (sea bream) and cut the dessert to only one:
Menu:
champagne
Chablis with dinner:
cold appetizers:
bretagne oyster raw w lemon
poached salmon w homemade mayo
san daniele ham with haricots verts
poached foie gras w toasted brioche
hot appetizers:
frog legs fried w garlic
pan seared foie gras
bretagne mussels steamed w white wine/garlic/onion cream sauce
Soup:
crab bisque w scallop mousseline w armagnac
Lobster boiled, with light cream sauce (some tiny red dots - veg? looked nice with the red lobs)
Cancelled
Sea bream
dessert and coffee
tasty fresh strawberries w coulis, fresh cream and galette? (thin buttery crispy wafer)
FTB! still digesting....
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by old mac (1126 days ago)
tiny red dots? maybe your lobster was female and carry eggs? which can be used in the sauce
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by sabi (1126 days ago)
WS is sure they weren't eggs though - perhaps very finely minced red pepper/paprika (?), Couldn't really separate the taste/texture as they were inside the cream
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by sabi (1126 days ago)
oh yes, and btw, the lobster was cooked with the green stuff included mixed with cream - very tasty.
Read in the amoricaine link they mash that into the butter - would be great tasting too - but what is that - the innards of the lobster? If we eat that, then why for shrimps we usually devein and discard the same?
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by old mac (1126 days ago)
you dont devein shrimps.....you take the anal canal out......you do that with lobsters also.
in fact the green stuff you use in sauces is the corail and marrow, its just a waste if youd discard it as its full of flavor....however also full of cholesterol
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by waterslang' (1126 days ago)
Cholesterol? What the F-word is Cholesterol????
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by sabi (1126 days ago)
we sure had a lot of cholesterol already - foie gras twice, lobster, creams.
Butter, bacon, olive oil ok - just no trans-fat.
devein is a term for doing just that.
corail n marrow - the same reason why my mom loves to suck out the juices from shrimp heads.
btw, if crustaceans are grilled or deep-fried - i just love the crispy seasoned outers not the thickest parts of the carapace tho (also same for fish crispy parts) - i never waste them, tasty and great calcium source.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by sabi (1126 days ago)
cholesterol, sodium counts all very good in my blood profile - everything very normal so can afford to indulge my senses a bit more....
I try to take a lot of anti-oxidants, dunno if it's that or genes (no family history of coronary heart disease) - chinese dietary habits.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by hoyo (1125 days ago)
shrimps are very small size and you don't put them directly under the grill! just put them into boil water briskly to kill them so they don't move then dry them and put them under the grill. The short span in the boiling water will not affect the taste since you want them grilled! besides, you'll need to butter or oil them + salt+pepper+chili+etc... to give some taste or nature but with a sauce to dip in etc... so many variations.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Meiguoren (440 days ago)
Ugh, I was going to ask how to kill lobster before grilling them, but this whole thread has put me off yet again! Veggie recipes, I'm back for awhile! Grilled Tofu anyone? (Actually, marinated it's pretty good!)
(I am based in Guangzhou)
Posted by crj (436 days ago)
Lobster is super easy (and I don't eat meat, only seafood/shellfish)... boil the water, and drop in head first. Nothing beats this simple way to cook and serve lobster.
You really don't want to know how the chefs at restaurants grill lobsters... it isn't nice.
(I am based in Beijing)
Posted by Meiguoren (436 days ago)
Yes, I think I remember my mom doing it with water at a rolling boil. It's essentially immediate if the water is hot enough. And then you can take them out and grill them? With the live shrimp, I actually do put them in the fridge to get them really cold, essentially knock them out. Some days I'm less squeamish than others. From my own training in biology, I think it's clear that pain is one of the most primitive and life-preserving of neurological responses. Even microbes recoil from unpleasant stimuli. The additional component of suffering comes from the ability to think about things -- to anticipate and to have fears. My mom tells me stories of growing up on a farm, when they slaughtered a steer, they would have to tie the mother in a back pasture because she would go beserk if she heard the cries of her own grown calf being slaughtered. While I'm personally not a vegetarian, I nevertheless think we all have an obligation to think in terms of reducing pain and suffering when we slaughter any animal. That indifference to suffering is something that I, like many westerners, find apalling about China culture (e.g. think of the fish in the markets cut in half with their hearts still beating). Of course, in a sense this is very hypocritical since what goes on in Western slaughterhouses is equally appalling, just more out of public view.
(I am based in Guangzhou)
Posted by crj (436 days ago)
For lobsters, I buy them live, keep them on ice in the sink. They move around a bit, and they like the cold as they live in cold water.
Boil the water fully (you can make it salt water if you want), and head (claw) first in.
Bring the water to a boil again, and then boil:
For 1 pound: 5 minutes
1 1/8 pounds: 6 minutes
1 1/4 pounds: 8 minutes
1 1/2 to 2 pounds: 8 to 10 minutes
more than 2 pounds : 12 minutes
Personally, I think boiled lobster tastes the best...
If you insist upon killing the lobster before you cook it:
place the tip of a sharp knife on top of the lobster's head where the lines in the shell form a T. Bring the knife down with a quick cutting motion. I could not do this, and I have a good friend who is a chef, not squemish at all, and he says he hates doing this more than anything.
(I am based in Beijing)
Posted by Tidings 2 (429 days ago)
I promise - this is the way to kill live seafood. It's still creepy but
You can put them in the freezer compartment only long enought to put them to sleep then cook them. It won't change the meat texture and whatever you are cooking won't move.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by a-mann (351 days ago)
I used to buy fresh lobsters at the seafood markets and they would half them by putting them backwards through a band saw. I don't think the lobsters liked it very much.
The generally accepted humane way to kill all seadfood is to chill them in slushy ice then spike them through the brain. Only problem with larger lobsters is that you really need an industrial strength saw to cut through them properly. But yabbies etc are fine to do at home. You just line them up with a cleaver along their spine then punch down - the little critters are halved before they know it!
(I am based in Hong Kong)
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